Wicipedia:Y Caffi/archif/3

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Neges oddi wrth Siôn

Sori am dori ar draws cwesitwn am yr afon Avon, ond hoffwn yn gyntaf longyfarch pwy bynnag sy'n gyfrifol am sefydlu Wicipedia Cymraeg am wneud y gwaith caib a rhaw. Gwych. yn ail: sut ddiawl mae rhywun yn gallu mynd i'r caffi o holi cwestiwn - oes modd cael botwm bach yn dweud holi neu cyfrannu neu rhywbeth ac yna sut mae danfon y neges / holiad?

Un neu ddau awgrym: 1. Portal cymunedol - onid porth yw'r gair a ddefnyddir am portal yn y Gymraeg? 2. O ran cysondebm, faswn i o blaid defnyddio Wikipedia yn y ffurf wreiddiol yn hytrach na gyda'r 'c', ond pwynt bychan yw hon. 3. 'hapgyrch' - 'hapgyrchu' yn fyw clir / cywir? 4. Fel un sydd wedi pori trwy cwpwl o'r ieithoedd eraill sy'n wikipedio ac wedi bod yn y niwl am beth amser am beth oedd yr iaith Waloneg, fase paragraff fer ar yr hafan yn dweud (yn Saesneg / Ffrangeg) mai gwasaneth Gymraeg yw hon a lle mae Cymru o ddiddordeb a help i borwyr achlysirol tramor i'r maes?

Fel arall, gwych! Edrychaf ymlaen i wneud defnydd o'r gwefan gyda'm gwaith.

Siôn Aberystwyth

Croeso Siôn! Yn gynta, diolch am bwyntio allan nad yw hi'n amlwg sut i ychwanegu cwestiynau i'r Caffi... fe wna i ychwanegu neges i dop y tudalen. Ynglŷn â'r awgrymiadau:

1. Ie, porth yw'r gair cywir... mae 'na sawl enghraifft o wallau iaith yn y rhyngwyneb yn anffodus; fe fydd yn rhaid mynd trwy'r negeseuon i gyd yn drylwyr rhywbryd.

2. Mae sawl iaith arall wedi defnyddio fersiwn wahanol am eu Wicipediau: Gaeleg, Lladin...

3. Gweler (1): efallai fod 'tudalen ar hap' yn well.

4. Syniad grêt! Unrhywun arall yn cytuno?

Gareth Wyn 17:02, 25 Meh 2004 (UTC)

Diolch am y negeseuon! Dw i'n cytuno, bydd paragraff sydd yn esbonio'n byr am y Cymraeg yn braf... --okapi 08:56, 26 Meh 2004 (UTC)

Gan fod pater termau wedi codi hoffwn nodi mai 'free' fel yn 'freedom' yw ystyr 'rhydd' ac mae'n debyg mai ystyr Gwyddioniadur Rhydd yw ei fod am ddim ac na chodir tâl. Dylid cywiro hyn rhywbryd yn fy maen i. Dyfrig

Mae'r mater hwn wedi'i godi o'r blaen: [1]. Dwi'n dueddol o gytuno ag Arwel; 'free' fel 'free speech' yw'r ystyr gwreiddiol, dwi'n credu -- y ffaith fod pawb yn rhydd i olygu'r gwyddoniadur. Gareth Wyn 20:47, 28 Meh 2004 (UTC)

I had a look at some of the others, hope it helps: Spanish, Italian and French use the equivalent of rhydd, so do German and Dutch. Japanese says nothing below the icon but points out in the text that everybody can use it freely. Chinese says "rhydd" and Korean has "the encyclopaedia belonging to all of us" below the icon. I quite like that, by the way... --okapi 15:32, 29 Meh 2004 (UTC)

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Purple Popes

To whoever created the articles on Popes, you should probably change Pab Piws since that translates as Purple Pope, which amused me no end when I saw it. I think it should be Pab Pïws since the double-dot accent ensures that the iw isn't dipthongised, but pronounced as i-w. However, I think that there should be a redirect from the unaccented version (as should probably happen with all accented articles, since not everyone knows how to type in accents from the keyboard when searching for articles). Diolch. Gareth Wyn 08:27, 13 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Heh! Nice one! :) - Arwel 12:47, 13 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Gofynodd rhywun 'ma, "was he one of the bad guys in Batman?". :) Marnanel 19:33, 18 Gor 2004 (UTC)

"Rhestr Ffrwythau" i "Restr... beth?"

Helo pawb! I was wondering if we could change the Rhestr ffrwythau in Rhestr planhigion bwytadwy or something like that, to include veggies, grains, herbs, spices and the other edible ones. Another (and even more comprehensive) way would be to change it into Rhestr planihigion gan werth masnachol or something like that and to include the ones used for medication, building (lumber and the like), industry and so on. It would considerably reduce the number of rhestri, and some of the lists would be rather short, anyway (for example the number of grains I can think of is pretty limited...).

What do you think?? --okapi 04:06, 15 Gor 2004 (UTC)

You've made me think of a question I had in mind - now that there is the "Category" function, do we actually need to create any more lists? And have we got our own equivalent of "Category"?

I've tried adding a category marker to Template:Stwbyn to see how it looks in general; gweler e.e. Tafod a Chategory:Stwbyn. We ought to have a general policy about whether to use lists or categories, I agree; it doesn't really make sense to do both. Marnanel 19:49, 18 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Hmmm, that's nice! It would mean that lists generate themselves... But lists also have their benefits... For example chronological lists (like Rhestr Pabau) or systematical lists (like Hanes). They are also good to collect ideas for new articles or proper names you probably won't find when you are looking for them, like in Rhestr adar Prydain. At the moment the latter one is alphabetical, but it could be changed into [[Rhestr adar]] which is systematical. With a note on top that all articles linked to this list need a Category:Adar on the bottom.

It also might be useful to have a rhestr categoriau on Hafan for quick reference... --okapi 03:46, 19 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Good points. It occurs to me as well that the sorting order is almost certainly going to be the English one, and we'll probably need to submit a patch in order to have it using Welsh sorting. I'll see what I can do, if anything. (Update: Looks like this problem has already been met, so perhaps it'll be easier than I thought.) Marnanel 03:52, 19 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Hmm, maybe not, felly ysgrifennais adroddiad nam. Marnanel 00:05, 20 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Diolch for looking into that! Yes, ff is a tricky one... so are ch, ll, rh and th by the way. Coming to think of it we seem to have quite a few of them...

BTW, I was wondering whether to use singular or plural forms with Categories. I saw that you put a category "aderyn" on the bottom of alarch, but shouldn't it be "adar" (gramatically speaking), as a category is like a big box you collect several items in? Just like you would say "Rhestr adar" and not "Rhestr aderyn"?? --okapi 00:35, 20 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Ww, syniad da. Marnanel 00:56, 20 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Mae rhestr categoriau yn Arbennig:Categories, btw. 01:06, 20 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Hmmm, neis iawn! BTW, would you mind if I had a go at reorganising your rhestr ffrwythau one of these days? --okapi 01:21, 20 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Oh, not at all. It belongs to everyone :) Marnanel 02:23, 20 Gor 2004 (UTC)

It is now at Rhestr planhigion bwytadwy... :-) --okapi 00:15, 21 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Wikisource

Ychwanegais tri chân Hedd Wyn ar Wikisource-- gwelwch Wikisource:Wikisource:Barddoniaeth. Marnanel 19:28, 18 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Campus! Deb 19:42, 18 Gor 2004 (UTC)

If anyone has copies of documents, poetry, songs, hymns, software, election results, and so on that they think are suitable for Wicisource and are free from copyright restrictions, please do go ahead and add them. I've reformatted the main page (which could do with checking by a fluent speaker) so it'll be easier to add stuff: http://wikisource.org/wiki/Main_Page:Cymraeg . I'll be adding stuff as I find it but it's all useful. Marnanel 19:57, 27 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Ieithoedd

Thanks a lot for correcting the box I put into Saesneg! What do you think, should we use that for all articles about languages? My only problem is that I am not enough of a linguist (not to mention a linguist fluent in Welsh...) to translate whatever has to fit into the teulu/dosbarthiad-box and is more demanding than "Indo-Ewropeaidd"... --okapi 03:54, 19 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Kywiro

Kywiro/Korrect is a project to share translation and vocabulary work between Welsh-language free software projects. I thought maybe we could tie the cy:MediaWiki translations into it-- it might benefit both us and others; I'll email them and ask about whether our text would fit in there. What do people think? Marnanel 00:22, 20 Gor 2004 (UTC)

That looks like an excellent project we ought to get involved with. How did you manage to find it? :) -- Arwel 11:17, 20 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Erthygl yn The Register. Marnanel 14:55, 20 Gor 2004 (UTC)

AIL-CYFEIRIO

I have been moving Cyrgystan, Tajicistan, Strasbwrg and Pacistan, as someone pointed out they should be spelt differently ar ôl yr Atlas Cymraeg Newydd (I think I will order one of those, but it will appearently take about two months to reach me...). Beth bynnag, it is a bit of a hassle to change all the REDIRECTs into AIL-CYFEIRIOs manually all the time. Is there any way to change it, so that it will happen automatically? --okapi 23:23, 20 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Yes, it should work automatically if we can get the latest version of LanguageCy.php applied -- but unfortunately the developers seem to take very little notice of requests in the proper place on Meta. I've been raising hell (in a small way) on the wikitech mailing list in the last week, about them tending to ignore the smaller languages! Still trying, so hopefully something will happen before the developers introduce MediaWiki version 4 (which they've just announced they've started work on). -- Arwel 02:12, 21 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Hah! I knew they would as soon as the current version is running (more or less)... ;-) --okapi 03:58, 21 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Hang on a minute, shouldn't it be AIL-GYFEIRIO?

Cliciwch ???? am rhestr adar yn nhrefn yr wyddor

Maybe this is just wishful thinking, but it would be so nice if we could link articles to the alphabetic lists the categories produce without the article itself appearing in the list. It would also be nice with the Rhestr planhigion bwytadwy, as different parts of it could be linked to different categories. Do you know what I mean?

At the moment, if you put [[Category:Adar]] on a page somewhere the category will turn up on the bottom. I was wondering if it was possible to do something like:

"Am rhestr adar yn nhrefn yr wyddor cliciwch [[Category:Adar|yma]]", but you can't, the category turns up on the bottom of the page anyways.

Any ideas? --okapi 15:41, 23 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Magic colon prefix. [[:Category:Adar]] → Category:Adar. Also works to stop interwiki (en:User:Marnanel) and image substitution (Delwedd:Tafod.jpg). Marnanel 17:09, 23 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Oh! That's neat! Diolch!! --okapi 23:37, 23 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Temporary:Cymraeg

Hi! As Sion from Aberystwyth had suggested writing a short text about the Welsh language in a non-Welsh language for Hafan, I have been having a go. I have concocted the text on Temporary:Cymraeg from the English and the Spanish Wikipedia (though my Spanish has become quite awfully rusty, I am afraid). It might still do with some improvements, but my editing skills do not go very far beyond this. I gave it a green frame so that it can be stuck below the broad green bar on the top of Hafan. I took the hint about being bilingual (in the languages of the countries with most native speakers, plus English in their case...) from Plattdüütsch, they also have an explanation about their language.

Well, what do you think? Any comments? (Or more importantly, improvements?) --okapi 15:44, 24 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Interesting idea. My French is a little rusty, but I've given it a go. We should maybe list this on meta:Translation for help. Marnanel 17:23, 24 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Oh, that is possible? I was wondering how to get people to do a langauage check for us. And thanks for the Ffrangeg! --okapi 00:16, 25 Gor 2004 (UTC)

I have been thinking about where to stick this - maybe below the green bar is not the best place after all, because everything that links to articles would vanish from the screen (unless you scroll down, of course...), and maybe that is not such a good idea. So how about on the bottom of the Gwyddoniadur-block? Oh, and I had a look at meta:Translation but couldn't really figure out how to get help... --okapi 13:11, 25 Gor 2004 (UTC)

I've done a language "wash-and-brush-up" on the Spanish and French. Can contribute a German para too, if you'd like one.

PS: I've deliberately made the Spanish "ti", the French "chi"; just my impression that this is how they would do it, (national stereotyping) the Spanish being that much more relaxed than the French) (/national stereotyping) -- Jac-y-do 15:26, 26 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Diolch! As for other languages: I could do Japanese - but do we really need it? I'd be perfectly happy with three languages, after all it's just a short note and we wouldn't want it to grow longer than the hafan itself, do we...? Any opinions? --okapi 01:06, 27 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Three's fine by me too, but is that three including or excluding English (i.e. shall I forget about the German)? -- Jac-y-do 19:44, 28 Gor 2004 (UTC)

I'd also keep it to the minimum: English, Spanish and French should include a large proportion of internet users, I'd say. In the future, we may need to add Mandarin... :) Gareth 21:44, 28 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Iawn. Ces i gwared â'r Almaeneg. -- Jac-y-do 20:43, 29 Gor 2004 (UTC)

As there were no more comments I moved it to Hafan. How do you like it? --okapi 03:13, 12 Aws 2004 (UTC)

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Bizarre Bug

It appears that the word diwedd disappears unless it is put inside <nowiki> tags. Is it just that word? Are there similar bugs elsewhere? Gareth 21:33, 27 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Gosh, how weird. At an informed guess, I'd imagine it's because the word is given as the only keyword in LanguageCy for the obscure "MAG_END" token, whose only purpose seems to be to mark the ends of documents which end with whitespace that shouldn't be trimmed. The keyword is marked as case-insensitive, unfortunately. en: has "__END__" instead; we should probably go the same way. Thanks for finding that! Marnanel 21:58, 27 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Oh drat! something else to try to get them to fix :( -- Arwel 22:40, 27 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Pigion

I have added two more: Hedd Wyn and Petroliwm, as we have already reached the bottom of the list. Do we have a fixed number of pigion? That is, should old ones be deleted when new ones are added? And if, how many should be standard? 8? 10? 12? Or any other number? --okapi 23:20, 27 Gor 2004 (UTC)

I don't think a policy has been set for these... Gwiwer seemed to be there for ages! How often should they be switched, usually? Perhaps a Wicipedia:Hen_bigion page should be set up to contain the old ones, once they go stale. Gareth 21:44, 28 Gor 2004 (UTC)

I didn't think ahead very well when I made the first one. For a while I was trying to update them on Sunday evenings, but then I missed some... We should have a policy, yes, and then it'll be easier to make sure it gets updated. Marnanel 23:15, 28 Gor 2004 (UTC)

I've moved the current list of potentials and used ones to Wicipedia:Pigion for now, since it didn't seem appropriate for a talk page. I'll see about sorting out the used ones later. Marnanel 14:11, 29 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Nodyn neu Template?

Heia! Me again. Like Colombo, I always seem to have another question... I was trying to stick the new [[Nodyn:GFDL]] Arwel produced (Diolch!) to Delwedd:Okapi.jpg, but it doesn't seem to display correctly, no matter if I use Nodyn or Template... Uhm... Beth i'w neud??? --okapi 05:12, 28 Gor 2004 (UTC)

You want {{GFDL}}, just like in the old days. (Well, minus the MSG: part from the old days.) Marnanel 13:50, 28 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Oh, wela i! Diolch! --okapi 22:45, 28 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Portal cymunedol (in the sidebar)

Should this go anywhere useful? I've redirected it to here for now. Marnanel 21:07, 29 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Wel, dylai'r enw newid i ddechrau -- ond i beth? Porth gymunedol? Cymuned? Cymuned Wicipedia? Wicipedwyr? Eich pleidleisiau plîs :-)

Dwi'n credu dylid cael tudalen yno sy'n cysylltu i'r Caffi, Cymorth iaith, tudalennau help ayyb, ond am nawr mae'r ail-gyfeiriad i'r Caffi yn iawn, dwi'n meddwl. Gareth 21:22, 29 Gor 2004 (UTC)

I'm not really the one to judge whether Cymraeg sounds natural or not, but I like Cymuned Wicipedia, it sounds nice and homey. And I never heally manage to connect any image with portal anyways, never mind in what language. BTW, I'd opt against Wicipedwyr, it sounds like a link to the Defnyddiwr-pages. Be dy pawb arall yn meddwl? --okapi 02:17, 30 Gor 2004 (UTC)

GDGD

Not, perhaps, a directly Wicipedia-related question (though I feel any answers you might be able to provide will help me here in future):

With Gogledd and Gorllewin, De and Dwyrain sharing initial letters, what are the standard abbreviations for the cardinal points of the compass yn Gymraeg?

There is a rather complicated roundabout underneath the M4 at Treforus which has the relevant abbreviations painted bilingually on the road surface -- but as I don't expect to be round that way again for a little while, can I appeal to Wicipedwyr for a ruling? Diolch -- Jac-y-do 22:17, 29 Gor 2004 (UTC)

This is probably a Wicipedia:Cymorth iaith problem, but I'll let you off this time! ;-)

• Gogledd -- G
• De -- D
• Gorllewin -- Gn
• Dwyrain -- Dn

Gareth 22:42, 29 Gor 2004 (UTC)

That was it! Diolch yn fawr iawn, Gareth. (I couldn't remember which ones got the extra letter.) And thanks too not only for letting me off but also for pointing out the Cymorth iaith page. Don't know why I never noticed it before, but will now study it assiduously :-) -- Jac-y-do 20:04, 30 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Tudalennau arbennig

On the Tudalennau arbennig it says "Tudalennau arbennig am pob defnyddwyr", shouldn't that be something like "pob defnyddiwr", + Singular? And I was wondering about the "am", hefyd... Efallai "i bob defnyddiwr"? Or without any preposition whatsoever: "Tudalennau arbennig pob defnyddiwr"? Just wondering... --okapi 04:06, 30 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Yes, you're right -- it should be singular. I think the preposition should be 'ar gyfer', so that it reads 'Tudalennau arbennig ar gyfer pob defnyddiwr'. But this will probably get caught up in my sweep of the MediaWiki messages... Gareth 22:55, 31 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Years, decades and centuries

(symudir i Sgwrs:Temporary:Blwyddyn) Marnanel 00:13, 5 Aws 2004 (UTC)

Shall I actually kick this off now? Is the template OK as it stands? Marnanel 03:25, 12 Aws 2004 (UTC)

Let's go for it! -- Arwel 11:48, 12 Aws 2004 (UTC)

Dwi'n hapus a hi nawr -- cer amdani! Gareth 19:25, 12 Aws 2004 (UTC)

Years are now done. Next to do: decades. Marnanel 17:13, 15 Aws 2004 (UTC)

Short month names

I don't know about you, but since Sunday seeing "Aws" in the abbreviated dates has been grating a bit with me. Since we already have four-character abbreviations for "Chwe", "Tach" and "Rhag", would anybody object violently if I were to change the abbreviations back to "Awst" and "Medi"? -- Arwel 23:32, 2 Aws 2004 (UTC)

Syniad da! Marnanel 23:56, 2 Aws 2004 (UTC)

Drat! I thought they'd already implemented MediaWiki:Aug and MediaWiki:Sep, but it looks like they haven't done it yet :( -- Arwel 00:11, 3 Aws 2004 (UTC)

Ro'n i'n feddwl mai tair lythyren oedd yn "Chwe", "Tach" ad "Rhag" :)