Sgwrs:Castell Dolwyddelan

A problem with mutations seems to have cropped up: Is it 15fed canrif or 15fed ganrif? If it should be ganrif quite a lot of checking will have to be done (ugh), as canrif does link somewhere while ganrif doesn't... --Okapi 13:50, 28 Ebr 2004 (UTC)

       This is one of a number of questions that need to be settled in my
       opinion.

       Are we going to adopt the traditional method of counting or the more           
       modern method that is pymthegfed ganrif, unfed ganrid ar bymthegn  
       deunawfed ganrif etc or undegpump fed undegchwechfed etc.Personally I 
       prefer the traditional method 

       Another way would be to use G as in G15, G16, etc which I think I have 
       seen here
       Dyfrig 18:00, 28 Ebr 2004 (UTC)

I think I also would prefer the traditional method, at least with centuries it somehow seems to sound better to me. I've been shopping around a bit: If the BBC, Cymdeithas yr Iaith Gymraeg, University of Wales Press and National Library of Wales are anything to go by, they use "drydedd ganrif ar ddeg" - traditional. On the other hand, the Clwyd-Powys Archaeological Trust, cymruwales.com, cymruarwe.org, gtj.org use "13ed ganrif". Cadw seem to use both. I couldn't find any G13 on the web, though. Whichever way we turn it would be "ganrif" appearently, so we are in for changes... So where does everybody want to turn? --Okapi 03:25, 29 Ebr 2004 (UTC)

When I've edited things, I've changed canrif to ganrif; although the 1st century is a bit different: it should be canrif gyntaf, which I think should be written out in full rather than written as canrif 1af. Then, we get ail ganrif, etc. I don't like things like '13ed' or '13fed' -- they make it look as though you should be saying 'un-deg-tri-fed' (which I think sounds awful). I think they should be: 2il ganrif, 3edd ganrif (3edd not 3ydd as canrif is feminine?), 4ydd ganrif, 5ed, 6ed, 7fed, 8fed, 9fed, 10fed, 11eg ganrif, 12fed, 13eg, 14eg, 15fed, 16eg, 17eg, 18fed, 19eg, 20fed, 21ain; with all number after that XXain ganrif (except 40fed, 60fed, 80fed, 100fed). For occasions after 100 I think we should say 'rhif 210' rather than '210fed'. For now I suggest we do redirects, changing the old pages as we find them. Gareth Wyn 08:21, 29 Ebr 2004 (UTC)

Just to check - it is:

• canrif cyntaf
• ail ganrif
• trydedd ganrif (I've seen both ar y we...)
• pedwaredd ganrif (shouldn't this be feminine, too?)
• pumed ganrif
• chweched ganrif
• seithfed ganrif

• wythfed ganrif

• nawfed ganrif
• degfed ganrif
• unfed ganrif ar ddeg
• deuddegfed ganrif
• trydedd ganrif ar ddeg
• pedwaredd ganrif ar ddeg
• pymthegfed ganrif
• unfed ganrif ar bymtheg
• ail ganrif ar bymtheg
• deunawfed ganrif
• pedwaredd ganrif ar bymtheg
• ugeinfed ganrif

And it is O.C. for A.D. and C.C. for B.C., right? And then? After 20? Why does it suddenly change to -ain? I'm afraid that's where you lost me...

By the way, I wouldn't mind writing the canrifs in words... --Okapi 09:34, 29 Ebr 2004 (UTC)

                  Believe it should be "y Ganrif Gyntaf" Cyntaf mutates after a       
                  fem noun

                   Dyfrig 15:25, 29 Ebr 2004 (UTC)

All the above are OK (with the exception of cyntaf, as Dyfrig has pointed out); this should explain the -af, -il, -edd, -ed, -fed and -eg; from 20th onwards we have:

• ugeinfed ganrif
• unfed ganrif ar hugain
• ail ganrif ar hugain
• etc.

Similarly 40 is deugain, 60 is trigain, 80 is pedwar ugain so (say) 73rd is trydedd XX ar ddeg ar bedwar ugain (I think). Hope this is of some help; Welsh grammar is not really my subject! Gareth Wyn 21:46, 29 Ebr 2004 (UTC)