Sgwrs Defnyddiwr:Fæ

Ni chefnogir cynnwys y dudalen mewn ieithoedd eraill.
Oddi ar Wicipedia

Croeso nol! Welcome back! Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 22:31, 24 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

Semi-automated test upload from Gwales - our first example to play with!
Always nice to be welcomed.
Could you take a look at the first example upload Delwedd:Dawn Dweud Henry Richard - Heddychwr a Gwladgarwr (llyfr).jpg and the template it relies on {{Gwales}}? I have no idea what standard format would be okay on cy.wp. Note that if we leave the transclusion of the Gwales template, then we can work on the template and any credit and project links in parallel with getting on with the first tranche of uploads.
By serendipity, this first upload is quite interesting, as I have no doubt that the portrait of Henry Richard is long out of copyright, so I suspect this is also an example where a fair use upload to cy.wp can later be moved to Commons as a PD derivative. Cheers --Fæ (sgwrs) 22:48, 24 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]
By serendipity, this first upload is quite interesting, as I have no doubt that the portrait of Henry Richard is long out of copyright, so I suspect this is also an example where a fair use upload to cy.wp can later be moved to Commons as a PD derivative. - this is what I love about Wicipedia/Wikipedia! And many thanks for you asisstance here and on Commons on such templates related to cy.wp projects.--Rhyswynne (sgwrs) 08:36, 25 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

Prosiect Llyfrau Gwales[golygu cod]

I have created the hidden category Categori:Gwales Llyfrau Prosiect (suggest a change if there's a better way of naming this project) which will eventually hold all the uploads for this batch project. --Fæ (sgwrs) 10:41, 25 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

Thanks, although it should be Prosiect Llyfrau Gwales. :) --Rhyswynne (sgwrs) 11:44, 25 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]
Good suggestion, and through the beauty of templates it's done with just a redirect. --Fæ (sgwrs) 11:51, 25 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]
  • Saesneg:  If anyone spots a book cover that is simply a derived work of a public domain image, such as a photo of an ancient manuscript, or the cover is simple text and has no significant creative content, then adding "trwyddedu=PD-art" or "trwyddedu=PD-text" to the template will override the default "Non-free" licence. See this example. This means it can then be used anywhere for general illustration, rather than only in an article directly related to the book. --Fæ (sgwrs) 11:36, 26 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

Tranche 1 - Literary texts in Welsh[golygu cod]

Good news everyone. The first tranche of book cover uploads is happening, I hope folks are ready for it. :-)

The first "beta test" is to upload all book covers from http://www.gwales.com/search_advanced/?sf_available=0&sf_category=WBA1 which is Gwales' collection of literary texts in Welsh. If this test works well, then we should be able to upload any other category whenever the project team is ready to make use of the images (which we must to in order to comply with Fair Use guidelines). Further update shortly [done, below], I'm fixing character maps as it goes along and I have quenched the upload rate to a maximum of 4 per minute so that I don't set off any alarm bells...

Beta test results
  • 318 book cover images were uploaded from gwales.com filtering under the category Welsh literary texts. This was out of a total of 395 in the category, the difference being that 73 do not have images available.
  • A summary is available at Fæ sandbox which includes the books that have not been uploaded as a double check. This summary table is automatically generated and snapshots of it could be adapted to support the article creation part of this project (we could automatically test if articles have been created or not and colour the rows appropriately to show the burn-down progress).
  • One outcome of the beta test was to sort out a character map for the upload process so that characters (like ŷ) that have been html encoded by Gwales in their catalogue, get transcoded into unicode and the filenames can then benefit from accented characters.
  • There are some duplicate images with different ISBNs, for example A and B. I would expect the API to flag these for me automatically, at least Commons works that way, so this is a bug to fix before we do thousands more (I can generate my own checksum and query that via the API). However, as the number is very small, it is hand-fixable right now (i.e. we can merge the two and use the one image) so I'm not putting this as a priority.

I am happy to knock off another couple of suggested categories from gwales.com, however I suggest that we limit ourselves to uploading only what the project can handle in a month. This gives us a month for each file to demonstrate it is in use and therefore from a copyright point of view can be retained on cy.wp under the USA fair use terms. For the time being, until we see how many interested volunteers start using the images and estimate better, I suggest this is around 1,000 book covers. I believe gwales has around 12,000 book cover scans available.

Now, someone go promote these images amongst the Welsh literati! :-D --Fæ (sgwrs) 14:01, 25 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

Duplicates update - I have just patched in and tested a routine I had working previously from a Wikimedia Commons batch upload when there were problems with duplicates. Future uploads will now be protected against this happening (at least for digitally identical files). For anyone interested in the API, here's a working example of this sort of check. --Fæ (sgwrs) 17:47, 25 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]
Absolutely brilliant, Fae! Down to the t! The community will discuss the next steps (about engaging the community) and any further categories. I've started a community project page here. Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 18:08, 25 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]
Small point, Fae: one image seems to be missing: File:Bewnans Ke (llyfr).jpg. It's not really important, but may lead us to a few more of the missing images? Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 07:49, 26 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]
I think this must due to Gwales categories. All 395 books in the Welsh literature category have been 'scraped' as they are all listed at Defnyddiwr:Fæ/sandbox whether there was an image or not. A search on that page for "Bewnans" does not show me any matches.
...Ah, checking the listing at http://www.gwales.com/bibliographic/?isbn=9780859898003 shows that this is only available under "Literary Studies (in English)" - I have just uploaded those published in Welsh so far. I'm happy to run through the English collection as the next tranche, i.e. the 400+ books listed under http://www.gwales.com/search_advanced/?sf_new_search=2&sf_category=WB25. --Fæ (sgwrs) 09:26, 26 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

Tranche 2 - Literary Studies (in English)[golygu cod]

Exemplar for the second round of uploads - in this case a book cover uploaded under Fair Use, but can be used here as it is a derived work of a mediaeval manuscript illustration.

Based on Llywelyn2000's note, I have decided to run this as the next category, it seems common sense to finish the literary books as a group. Changes from the last tranche are that identical image duplicates should be skipped automatically and the Gwales website category will craftily be added to the template as an extra parameter. Invisible to the reader at the moment, we can decide later on whether to use the Gwales category (for example to generate sub-categories), and this will help to pull out reports of images by category if there are any issues or to help with usage. In this tranche this means that "gwales_category=WB25" is in the template. --Fæ (sgwrs) 10:28, 26 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

Results Done, now over 700 images in the project category. A snapshot list of results is here. --Fæ (sgwrs) 18:30, 26 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

Dashboard[golygu cod]

I have been pondering about measuring project progress and put together a short search to show which images are being used in cy articles and which have been marked as public domain. Here's a snapshot table of status and a periodic routine (daily?) giving statistics like this could help track the burn-down of images.

 Cwblhawyd
 Created under Wicipedia:Wicibrosiect Llyfrau Gwales/dangosfwrdd, you may wish to transclude this into the main project page. I'll leave this to update once or twice a day unless the project seems inactive. If the updates have mysteriously stopped, drop me an email as a prompt to check if it crashed (it's actually better to not make a bot overly protected against crashing, just to give us some loopholes if it starts to take over the world).
If anyone is interested, the source code is at Commons:User:Fæ/code/reportWBS.py. --Fæ (sgwrs) 15:47, 8 Tachwedd 2013 (UTC)[ateb]
Looks good, Fae! I've transcluded it to Wicipedia:Wicibrosiect Llyfrau Gwales, which is the project page. We're still working on the database, and will be in a position to start creating the articles in the next few days. Some orphan images can be seen in the table, as examples, I take it; thankfully you haven't added the whole lot! Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 16:42, 8 Tachwedd 2013 (UTC)[ateb]
No, the dangosfwrdd will only show images that are in use in articles or have been identified as public domain. The reason for this is that Fair Use ought to be time limited if not in use (eventually being deleted), whereas we can consider anything public domain as off the "urgent list" as there is no time limit. Really, we should be showing the inverse of this table, as everything else in the category needs work. It's just a bit of fun, the main thing is that it gives you an automatically updated progress indicator, this will help volunteers see they are making a difference by using the book covers (or deleting them, or marking them as public domain). :-D
Re-configured to run every 20 hours (so at least once a day). I have taken the date out, this can be seen in the page history and it avoids the page having updates when there are no actual changes to the table. The transcluded version should automatically show the latest table on the project page. --Fæ (sgwrs) 11:45, 9 Tachwedd 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

Review[golygu cod]

That's an useful table; suggest it be moved into a separate page named 'Wicipedia:Y Defnydd o ddelweddau Gwales ar erthyglau Wicipedia' (Usage of Gwales images on WP artciles). Fae: I see no reason against creating articles on English language books, but I've requested a discussion on this by the community. In fact, I do believe these would broaden WP's horizons etc. Hold fire for a while. I need to add the word '(llyfr)' after the book titles on my database and trying to work out which Regular Expression to use: $ and something else! Then I need the ok from a couple of users on the template I used to create the Bewnans Ke article. Then it's all systems go! Or a thumbs down! We'll see! Thanks again Fae; brilliant mind on those shoulders! Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 20:08, 26 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

No worries. There could always be a community review process that puts unlikely to be used images in a deletion category. There are unexpected spin-offs, such as finding images that are actually public domain.
I'll have a think about a dashboard page, it would be nice to have something graphical.
With the tools I have to hand now, it would be easy to take a list of ISBNs from books people find on Gwales, and then batch upload these as requests when there are enough to be worth it (i.e. more than 100). So if folks are worried about uploading stuff that might not get used, we can invert it this way to make it a 'pull' rather than a 'push'.
BTW, Commons:Category:Geograph images in Wales is still sorely underused. ;-) --Fæ (sgwrs) 20:56, 26 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]
Whaw! you have been busy! I wasn't aware of those, Fae. thanks. Re: push or pull - I'd prefer pushing the whole lot up. Then they will be read / used. It's horse and cart. If we wait for readers to dictate, we'll be waiting in 20 years time! Your idea of a graphical dashboard page is a bonus! It would tell us which ones are still orphans (if any!), and maybe a colour code system which deepens in colour when a page is read! Diolch Fae! Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 21:14, 26 Hydref 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

Redirects[golygu cod]

We've been condensing long titles to shorter ones e.g. from Cyfres y Beirdd Answyddogool: Llyfr Bach Cynnas to Llyfr Bach Cynnas; the unused bit being, more often than not a description such as the name of the series, volume etc. The effect of this is that they're not being picked up on the Wicipedia:Wicibrosiect Llyfrau Gwales/dangosfwrdd table. Is there a way that can be done, Fae? Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 08:58, 23 Tachwedd 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

Hm, my expectation is that when Faebot does its thing (twice a day), it looks for where the image is used and will show all matching pages in the table. It should therefore show the new page names and not the redirects. Give me a while to look at the example...
In the Llyfr Bach Cynnas example, the image appears to have been deleted and the article only shows a redlink. My guess would be that Faebot is correct and the image does not now exist in Categori:Prosiect Llyfrau Gwales, so there is nothing to report. Happy to look at another example if something else is going on. --Fæ (sgwrs) 13:18, 23 Tachwedd 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

Welsh language, History images please?[golygu cod]

Hanes = History. https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhestr_Llyfrau_Cymraeg/Hanes,_Hanes_Lleol,_Arferion_Gwlad,_Ll%C3%AAn_Gwerin

Thanks Fae. Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 08:54, 15 Rhagfyr 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

I have some urgent real life stuff on, will get to this in about a week, hopefully. --Fæ (sgwrs) 22:41, 16 Rhagfyr 2013 (UTC)[ateb]
No rush! All the best. Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 00:09, 17 Rhagfyr 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

 Cwblhawyd
 455 images available at Prosiect Llyfrau Gwales WBH1. Nadolig Llawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda! --Fæ (sgwrs) 05:36, 23 Rhagfyr 2013 (UTC)[ateb]

How are those images compatible with the licensing policy? Most of them are unfree and unused, aren't they? Nemo bis (sgwrs) 15:17, 25 Chwefror 2015 (UTC)[ateb]
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