Sgwrs Defnyddiwr:Pwyll: Gwahaniaeth rhwng fersiynau

Ni chefnogir cynnwys y dudalen mewn ieithoedd eraill.
Oddi ar Wicipedia
Cynnwys wedi'i ddileu Cynnwys wedi'i ychwanegu
Dim crynodeb golygu
Dim crynodeb golygu
Llinell 94: Llinell 94:
However, there is a huge difference between the way that this text is presented and what has been done in the other case. It is:
However, there is a huge difference between the way that this text is presented and what has been done in the other case. It is:


(1) at the start / end of the article rather than as part of a paragraph
-> (1) at the start / end of the article rather than as part of a paragraph


(2) inside a box
-> (2) inside a box


(3) in an italic font
-> (3) in an italic font


all of which help make it obvious to the reader that it is not really part of the article text itself.
all of which help make it obvious to the reader that it is not really part of the article text itself.
Llinell 128: Llinell 128:
Right, back to the substantive content (and I apologize for using English, I really do). I am concerned that simply changing the text in order to use the impersonal form of the verb while still leaving what are essentially instructions to editors in the middle of a paragraph would only half-solve the problem. I have now looked in more detail at what is done with the "eginyn Unol Daleithiau" stuff:
Right, back to the substantive content (and I apologize for using English, I really do). I am concerned that simply changing the text in order to use the impersonal form of the verb while still leaving what are essentially instructions to editors in the middle of a paragraph would only half-solve the problem. I have now looked in more detail at what is done with the "eginyn Unol Daleithiau" stuff:


(1) As mentioned before, the instruction to editors is in a box at the bottom where it is obviously not part of the article text.
-> (1) As mentioned before, the instruction to editors is in a box at the bottom where it is obviously not part of the article text.


(2) Also, it seems that the content of that box is managed via a separate little "Nodyn" page, where it appears to me that if we wanted to change it subsequently it would be a single page to edit and would not involve re-editing the same hundreds of articles yet again.
-> (2) Also, it seems that the content of that box is managed via a separate little "Nodyn" page, where it appears to me that if we wanted to change it subsequently it would be a single page to edit and would not involve re-editing the same hundreds of articles yet again.


If we decide that this text does needs to be on the article page, then I feel that the above approach is the way to do it, particularly in view of point 2, because (contrary to someone's fears that I am here to spoil things out of envy) I really have no interest in making this job end up consuming more of anybody's time and effort in the long run than it actually requires.
If we decide that this text does needs to be on the article page, then I feel that the above approach is the way to do it, particularly in view of point 2, because (contrary to someone's fears that I am here to spoil things out of envy) I really have no interest in making this job end up consuming more of anybody's time and effort in the long run than it actually requires.

Fersiwn yn ôl 08:39, 8 Ebrill 2011

Croeso i fy nhudalen sgwrs!
Mae croeso i chi adael neges isod. Diolch.

Efydd

Dileais hyn o'r erthygl efydd, gan yn amlwg nid yw'n berthnasol at y gair Cymraeg. Hwyl, —Adam (sgwrscyfraniadau) 19:22, 2 Ebrill 2010 (UTC)[ateb]

Dim problem! Mae'n rhaid mod i'n cael blonde moment! D'oh! Pwyll 19:45, 2 Ebrill 2010 (UTC)[ateb]

Brynmelin - Brynmill

Just want to let you know that Brynmelin is not the same place as Brynmill. Brynmill is located in the Uplands area of Swansea, whereas Brynmelin is the area around St. Josephs Cathedral, which is also known as Greenhill and Waun Wen. You can see that there is a street in the area called Bryn-melyn Street from which the area gets its informal name.195.27.12.230 10:46, 27 Ebrill 2010 (UTC)[ateb]

Hmmm... Maybe this issue needs some clarification. When "Brynmelin, Abertawe" is googled, most the locations that appear refer to the English "Brynmill" near the Uplands, apart from the odd reference to Brynmelin Street near Plasmarl. "Brynmelyn" in Welsh derives from Bryn = Hill + Melin = Hill. Therefore, surely it must be "Bryn" + Mill. Maybe the other Brynmelyn (Hill + Yellow) refers to the other loacation? Pwyll 11:52, 27 Ebrill 2010 (UTC)[ateb]
CYMRAEG
Dw i'n cytuno gyda 195.27.12.230: dwy ardal wahanol yn Abertawe yw Brynmill a Brynmelyn. Ardal yn ward yr Uplands tua 2 km i orllewin canol y ddinas yw'r cyntaf ac ardal yn ward y Castell tua 1.5 km i ogledd y canol yw'r ail.
Beth bynnag, byddai Brynmill (a enwyd ar ôl "Bryn mill" gwirioneddol a ddangosir ar fap o 1879) yn cael ei gyfieithu fel "Melin y bryn", neu'n ddichonadwy fel "Brynfelin".
Ystyr yr enw Brynmelyn yw "yellow hill". Mae'n cael ei ddangos ar yr un map o 1879, ynghyd â "Bryn-melyn Street" (Stryd y Brynmelyn). Mae 'na Parc Brynmelyn hefyd – ac ni ddylid ei gymysgu gyda Pharc Brynmill!
Yn Cymraeg, cyn belled ag y gallaf ddweud, cyfeirir at Brynmill fel ...Brynmill – yn bennaf, mae'n debyg, oherwydd y tebygrwydd agos sydd rhwng y ddau enw "Brynfelin" a Brynmelyn. Dyma ychydig o enghreifftiau a gymerais i oddi ar y rhyngrwyd:
*... ar ôl i gorff dyn gael ei ddarganfod mewn tŷ yn ardal Brynmill, Abertawe
* [yn] Brynmill, Abertawe, Morgannwg
* John R., 49 oed o Brynmill, a Zohiab W., 19 oed o Waunarlwydd
* Simon E. yn 38 oed o ardal Brynmill
*... curo ar ddrysau yn ardaloedd Brynmill ac Uplands
*... yn ei gartref yn Brynmill, Abertawe
*... a welwyd yn Brynmill [...] yn ardal Bae Abertawe
* trowch i'r dde i mewn i Lôn Brynmill
* mae taith adar a bywyd gwyllt o amgylch Parc Brynmill ddydd Sul 1 Mawrth
* Map o gwrs cyfeiriannu Parc Brynmill
*... yn yr ardaloedd sy'n boblogaidd i fyfyrwyr yn Brynmill ac Uplands
* Mae Parc Brynmill yn dyddio'n ôl i 1872
ENGLISH
I agree with 195.27.12.230: Brynmill and Brynmelyn are two different localities in Swansea. The first is an area in Uplands ward, about 2 km west of the city centre, the second is an area in Castle ward about 1.5 km north of the city centre.
Brynmill (named after an actual "Bryn mill" shown on an 1879 map) would in any case be "Melyn y Bryn" (or just conceivably "Brynfelin") in Welsh.
Brynmelyn means "yellow hill" (it is also shown on the 1879 map, where Bryn-melyn Street appears). There is also a Brynmelyn Park (Parc Brynmelyn): not to be confused with Brynmill Park (Parc Brynmill)!
No doubt largely because of the close similarity between "Brynfelin" and Brynmelyn, Brynmill is, as far as I can tell, always referred to in Welsh by its English name. Here are a few examples taken from the net:
[see Welsh text above]
You say that When "Brynmelin, Abertawe" is googled, most the locations that appear refer to the English "Brynmill" near the Uplands. I disagree. They almost all refer either to your own Wikipedia article or to mirrors/translations of it! The one exception appears to be a report on Ysgol Gymraeg Bryn y Môr -- and that would seem to be a mistake since the school itself supplies its Welsh-language address as
Ysgol Gymraeg Bryn y Môr
Heol Sant Alban
Brynmill
Abertawe
-- Jac-y-do 16:26, 29 Mawrth 2011 (UTC)[ateb]
P.S. Dw i newydd sylwi bod yr un peth wedi digwydd ynglŷn â Brynhyfryd a Mount Pleasant. "Bryn hyfryd" yw'r ystyr llythrennol o "Mount Pleasant", mae'n wir – ond dwy ardal wahanol o Abertawe ydyn nhw, â bron i 3 km rhyngddynt... Am y rheswm hwn, dwedir – yn y Gymraeg yn union fel yn y Saesneg – "Brynhyfryd" a "Mount Pleasant" i wahaniaethu rhwng y ddau le. E.e.: Mae'r tai yn Mount Pleasant yn ddrutach na'r rheiny ym Mrynhyfryd. -- Jac-y-do 10:12, 30 Mawrth 2011 (UTC)[ateb]
Dw i'n gweld y pwynt i ryw raddau ac yn derbyn fod yna anghysondeb o ran enw Brynmill yn Gymraeg. Mae rhai yn defnyddio Brynmill fel ag y mae ond mae rhai sefydliadau yn cyfeirio ato fel "Brynmelin". Mae rhain yn cynnwys Estyn, ond hefyd mae erthygl ar wefan y BBC yn cyfeirio at Lôn Brynmelin (sef Brynmill Lane yn Saesneg, sydd wrth ymyl Parc Singleton. Ceir hefyd cerdd gan Nia Keinor Jenknins o'r enw Llyn Brynmelin sy'n cyfeirio at y Llyn ym Mharc Brynmill. Mae'r papur bro lleol hefyd yn cyfeirio ato fel Parc Brynmelin ar wefan Menter Iaith Abertawe.
'Does dim gwrthwynebiad enfawr gyda fi i symud y dudalen i "Brynmill" ond pan fo achosion o'r enw Cymraeg yn cael ei ddefnyddio, dw i'n meddwl y dylen ni aros gyda'r fersiwn Gymraeg. Pwyll 19:47, 1 Ebrill 2011 (UTC)[ateb]

194.168.30.220

Diddorol! Hunanfeirniadaeth ar y slei gan "hunan bwysigion" S4C efallai :-) Anatiomaros 15:37, 3 Mehefin 2010 (UTC)[ateb]

Hmmm... pwy a wyr wir?! Pwyll 10:03, 4 Mehefin 2010 (UTC)[ateb]

Helo, could you help us, please!

ói bore da! Sorry this is the only thing I'm able to write in Welsh for now. I'm Claudi Balaguer, member of a Catalan association "Amical de la Viquipèdia" which is trying to become a Chapter but has seen this rejected because it doesn't belong to a/one state! Since you're Welsh you understand too well what it is to be a speaker of a minorized language. If you think that our action may help all the minorized or stateless languages and preserve our cultures you can paste the following template on your user page Wikimedia CAT. Thanks/diolch for your help! I wish you a pleasant and sunny summertime. Take care, hwyl fawr! Capsot 17:37, 14 Mehefin 2010 (UTC)[ateb]

Pleidlais

Sut mae, Pwyll? Ynglŷn â fy nghynnig i roi statws gweinyddwr i Glenn: er mwyn gwneud popeth yn ffurfiol mae lle i bawb pleidleisio yma. Dwi ddim yn meddwl fod hyn yn cyfrif fel "canfasio" gan dy fod eisoes wedi mynegi dy farn. Hwyl, Anatiomaros 23:52, 17 Gorffennaf 2010 (UTC)[ateb]

Blwch defnyddiwr

Helo, s'mai? Dwi newydd greu blwch i'w ddefnyddio i ddweud bod rhywun yn weinyddwr. Defnyddia'r cod {{Defnyddiwr:Xxglennxx/Blychau/Gweinyddwr}} os hoffet ti :) -- Xxglennxx (sgw.cyf.) 00:43, 26 Gorffennaf 2010 (UTC)[ateb]

confusion

Something very odd has happened. A new(?) user called Rhodri77 has appeared in the Newidiadau Diweddar, but when I look up his page it goes through to your one instead. Is there a bug in the software? Llais Sais 08:16, 25 Medi 2010 (UTC)[ateb]


mynyddoedd

Dear Sir/Madam,

You blocked out my account "boncyff-ff....b" as "enw defnyddiwr annerbyniol". All I did was write "boncyff" forwards and backwards. Not to worry, here is a revised name, which I hope you will consider acceptable this time. (I also created "boncyff 2", but didn't get as far as using it, and now can't remember what password I chose, so now that account is unusable.) Anyway, at least you cannot now object to my writing to you in English, having yourself disallowed a name which sounds rude in English but is innocuous in Welsh. I wonder whether you would also disallow "Nick" as an account name, as it sounds like a swear word in Arabic, or if it's just English that gets special treatment.

However, enough about that: let me move on to the substance.

You undid a good chunk of my edits, which suggests to me that you don't agree with them. So let me explain what I was doing.

Someone has created hundreds of articles about Scottish mountains. Great work, but unfortunately every time he/she includes the sentence:

"Gwneir bob ymdrech i ganfod yr enw yn yr iaith wreiddiol, a gwerthfawrogwn eich cymorth os gwyddoch yr enw Gaeleg."

In each case I removed that sentence from the article, and put it into the associated "Sgwrs" page instead. This is because it seems to me very obviously inappropriate for the text of an article to be using the first and second persons in this way. Do you not agree? Even though these articles are a work in progress, they should still be written in the style of the finished product, should they not? Stuff about contributing to the article belongs very clearly on the discussion page and not in the article itself.

I will make one concession that in some places you get article maintenance stuff on the article page along the lines of the following example:

"Eginyn erthygl sydd uchod am yr Unol Daleithiau. Gallwch helpu Wicipedia drwy ychwanegu ato."

However, there is a huge difference between the way that this text is presented and what has been done in the other case. It is:

-> (1) at the start / end of the article rather than as part of a paragraph

-> (2) inside a box

-> (3) in an italic font

all of which help make it obvious to the reader that it is not really part of the article text itself.

If I were to make the reverse change, i.e. change those articles so that the "Eginyn erthygl...." appeared as part of the text of one of the paragraphs rather than in a separate box, would you consider that acceptable? (That was a rhetorical question by the way.) Rather, what needs to happen is for this stuff about "gwerthfawrogwn eich cymorth" to be either moved to the "sgwrs" page or at least presented in a way similar to what is currently done with the "gallwch helpu Wicipedia" stuff.

This is really going to have to be done some time, and the more that you delay in addressing it, the more similar articles will get created in the meantime - I see that there are several more today - and the more work it will be in the end.

Sadly, I will not myself be assisting further with this effort, because yo undid the changes which I made already, suggesting that you do not value my assistance.

Kind regards,

Boncyff derwen (a.k.a. new red ff....b)

Heb ei arwyddo: Defnyddiwr:Boncyff derwen am 08:30, 7 Ebrill 2011


Dyna lot o wynt! Yn y bon mae ganddo bwynt (bychan iawn), er i ni gytuno ar y geiriad uchod cyn cychwyn y gwaith. Mater bach ydy addasu'r frawddeg i'r canlynol, o hyn ymlaen:
"Gwneir bob ymdrech i ganfod yr enw yn yr iaith wreiddiol, a gwerthfawrogir pob cymorth."
Ond mae na un pwynt arall; pwynt sinistr. Mae'n amlwg fod y Defnyddiwr hwn yn deall Cymraeg yn berffaith. Pam mae o felly'n cuddio dan gochl Seisnig? Da ni wedi cael y math yma o beth o'r blaen ac mae'n drewi o eiddigedd at lwyddiant Wici, yn fy marn i. Da ni wedi dod ar draws y tafodrhydd hwn o'r blaen, dan enwau gwahanol (ond yr un cyfeiriad IP!!!). Os ydy o'n poeni am iaith rhai o'r erthyglau, pam nad ydy o'n sgwennu neu'n golygu?
Llywelyn2000 19:40, 7 Ebrill 2011 (UTC)[ateb]


Diolch am yr ymateb, er gwaethaf y beirniadaeth. Ceisiaf wneud awgrymiad adeiladol, ac, os caf, ysgrifennaf yn Saesneg (isod), achos, er deallaf y Gymraeg yn rhesymol o dda, mae'n haws i mi ddefnyddio'r Saesneg tra'n ysgrifennu'n estynedig, felly gwerthfawrogwn allu defnyddio'r iaith honno heb gyhuddiadau fy mod i'n ffugio bod o genedligrwydd Seisnig.

Right, back to the substantive content (and I apologize for using English, I really do). I am concerned that simply changing the text in order to use the impersonal form of the verb while still leaving what are essentially instructions to editors in the middle of a paragraph would only half-solve the problem. I have now looked in more detail at what is done with the "eginyn Unol Daleithiau" stuff:

-> (1) As mentioned before, the instruction to editors is in a box at the bottom where it is obviously not part of the article text.

-> (2) Also, it seems that the content of that box is managed via a separate little "Nodyn" page, where it appears to me that if we wanted to change it subsequently it would be a single page to edit and would not involve re-editing the same hundreds of articles yet again.

If we decide that this text does needs to be on the article page, then I feel that the above approach is the way to do it, particularly in view of point 2, because (contrary to someone's fears that I am here to spoil things out of envy) I really have no interest in making this job end up consuming more of anybody's time and effort in the long run than it actually requires.

Ofnaf bod y ffaith fy mod i wedi ysgrifennu yn Saesneg yn cael ei gweld fel math o gythruddiad. Ymddiheuraf, ond roedd angen arno. Ond er mwyn gorffen gan ysgrifennu rhywbeth o leiaf yn y Gymraeg fel cangen olewydd, dyma nodyn fach i ddweud yr hoffwn eich diolch chi i gyd am eich dealltwriaeth, a gobeithiaf ddychwelyd yma rhywbryd ar ôl y Pasg. Yn y cyfamser, dymunaf i chi Basg hapus (a gŵyl banc hapus yr wythnos ganlynol beth bynnag eich barn am y frenhiniaeth) a phob llwyddiant.

Cofion, Boncyff derwen