Sgwrs Defnyddiwr:RHaworth

Shwmae, RHaworth! Croeso mawr i Wicipedia — y gwyddoniadur rhydd.			Message in English | Message en français
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Dyma eich tudalen sgwrs lle gallwch dderbyn negeseuon gan Wicipedwyr eraill. I adael neges i Wicipedwr arall, dylech ysgrifennu ar dudalen sgwrs y defnyddiwr gan glicio ar y cysylltiad iddi, ac wedyn clicio ar y tab "sgwrs". Ar ddiwedd y neges mewn tudalennau sgwrs (fel yr un yma), gadewch ~~~~, a bydd y cod yma yn gadael stamp eich enw ac amser gadael y neges. Os ydych am gael cymorth gan weinyddwyr, rhowch y nodyn {{Atsylwgweinyddwr}} ar eich tudalen sgwrs. Fe obeithiwn y byddwch yn mwynhau cyfrannu yma, Y Wicipedia Cymraeg

Cofion cynnes,

Deb 18:23, 19 Medi 2010 (UTC)

Images

Would you please refrain from tagging images with 'tudalen amheus' until you know what you are doing? You have also upset one of our main contributors with your unthoughtfully worded message. Do we need to get our file licensing in order? Yes. Welcome to the world of the smaller wikipedias where we simply don't have the resources to do everything as we would wish all of the time. If you understood Welsh you would see that most of the images you have been tagging as "dubious" are either claimed as own work and released to the public domain by the uploader or it is stated that the image was obtained from another wikipedia - usually en - which claims Fair Use. Most of these are older files when we didn't have the choice of licensing which we now have. Let us sort this out. And please try to be a bit more civil in future. You are simply another user here and the fact you are an admin on 'en' is irrelevant, with all due respect. A little courtesy would go a long way, such as politely bringing up your concerns at our equivalent of the Village Pump (Y Caffi). You are not here in any official capacity so please stop behaving as if you were. Anatiomaros 20:25, 19 Medi 2010 (UTC)

With respect, I know exactly what I am doing. I am dealing solely with images from the Geograph Britain and Ireland project. Here is the list of them. Please tell which of these images have been validly claimed as own work. Which have been released into the public domain by the photographer - if the uploader is not the photographer, they must provide evidence that the image is public domain. Which were originally uploaded with a claim of Fair Use - they should not have been!

I am arranging for the transfer of these images to the Commons - which is where they should have been uploaded in the first place. Please calm down and explain what is wrong with this. "Let us sort this out"! It would be better if you were to thank me for taking the trouble to sort it out for you. RHaworth 20:41, 19 Medi 2010 (UTC)

Had you (RHawaorth) explained that at the outset, then you would not have tred or trodden on our dreams. I suggest next time, you explain your actions before executing them, not after. Llywelyn2000 20:46, 19 Medi 2010 (UTC)

And this remark by Porius1 is what led me to say what I did above. As for the Geograph Project on Commons, I am fully aware of its existence, thank you very much, having been involved with it almost from the outset. As Llywelyn2000 says, if you had brought this up civilly in Y Caffi to begin with we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Anatiomaros 20:50, 19 Medi 2010 (UTC)

PS "I am arranging for the transfer of these images to the Commons - which is where they should have been uploaded in the first place." Is that a command? If so, I hope you have been telling the original uploaders on en the same thing as that is were most of our geograph images originated, well before GeographBot started on its work. Anatiomaros 20:54, 19 Medi 2010 (UTC)

Frankly, you should have heeded the advice given to you on Commons today. Wikipedia and Wikimedia is a cooperative effort which relies on goodwill and courtesy. Please remember that. Anatiomaros 21:02, 19 Medi 2010 (UTC)

There is a motto on en: be bold. Clearly that does not apply here! Possibly the problem is simply that Nodyn:Tudalen amheus does not allow me to give a deletion reason - I would have thought that "delete because now on Commons" was a necessary and sufficient statement of what I am doing. "I am arranging for the transfer of these images to the Commons …" - of course it is not a command - it simply means that once I have uploaded the image to the Commons (where necessary) and I have orphaned the image here (where necessary), then I shall tag the image here for deletion. I am not commanding anybody to do anything but I am politely requesting deletion of redundant images. Yes, I have been notifying uploaders on en: and none of them has complained as stridently as you have - most have not complained at all. Indeed, this user thanked me for helping them use the geograph_org2commons tool. -- RHaworth 21:22, 19 Medi 2010 (UTC)

There is a motto on cy: be curteous, truthful and at all times respectful. Llywelyn2000 21:27, 19 Medi 2010 (UTC)

Don't you feel cold and lonely?

There's hardly been a soul here today. It's so cold.

• If anything, I feel the exact opposite. When I transfer a Geograph image from the English Wikipedia to the Commons, it usually provokes no comment at all. Doing the same thing here raised the temperature considerably as you can see above! Cold and lonely - no. Totally, brutally unwelcomed - yes. RHaworth 21:56, 22 Medi 2010 (UTC)

Block

Just to let you know that a user has threatened to block you for ever if you make another insulting comment. Sais Neis 18:22, 23 Medi 2010 (UTC)

• Thank you for the warning - where was it made? I will fully admit to being blunt in what I write but I deny that I am ever insulting. I take as my standard "parliamentary language" - if John Bercow or Dafydd Elis-Thomas would permit it, then it is OK here. What have I said that either of those two people might reject? RHaworth 18:41, 23 Medi 2010 (UTC)

In Wicipedia:Y Caffi by Defnyddiwr:Anatiomaros. "Os gwneiff y bonheddwr RHaworth gymaint ag un sylw bach sarhaus eto ceiff ei flocio am fyth, gweinyddwr ar 'en' neu beidio." - translation "If the gentleman RHaworth makes so much as one little insulting comment again he will be blocked for ever, [be he] an administrator on 'en' or not." Llais Sais 00:32, 24 Medi 2010 (UTC)

By the way - to expand on this a bit. (S)he has claimed that (a) you have no authority i.e. not an official representative, and (b) you have been insulting. I think that (a) is self-evident, and I have to say that I agree with (b) also. However despite that you do have a valid point about licensing - if the copyright holder of an image which has been uploaded outside the terms of the licence shows up then it could spell trouble for the uploader. So I have suggested that they heed what you are saying despite objections to the way you are saying it. Llais Sais 01:01, 24 Medi 2010 (UTC)

• Of course I have no authority. That is why I worded my remarks as suggestions rather than orders. Is there anybody who can be said to have authority? In fact, I feel so strongly about this that I think it is time that somebody who does have authority - presumably someone who actually represents the Wikimedia Foundation - should step in and insist on proper treatment of image copyrights. Regarding insults, could you please take a moment to check my remarks and tell me which of them, in your view, overstep the bounds of parliamentary language and become insults - and say why! — RHaworth 09:26, 24 Medi 2010 (UTC)

I haven't stepped into the discussion until now, although I have been keeping a close eye on it. I (as well as many other contributors, I'm sure) happen to agree that sorting out the image licensing was well overdue. It's certainly a positive thing that it's being done now.

I also disgree that you've been insulting. Whilst you describe your language as "blunt", I'd favour "lacking social skills". You seem to have missed the point that unless new volunteers, myself included, are aware of the protocol regarding uploading images, reprimanding the volunteers of the whole wiki with "I am horrified at the contempt this wiki shows for image licensing" will certainly rub people up the wrong way. Statements of this kind are not constructive and come across to others as self-important pomposity.

Also, you could quite easily have referred to myself as a contributor who shows "contempt" for image licensing. I'm sure that most people can see and appreciate that I don't have utter "contempt" for image licensing. It's simply that I am not aware of the rules and presumed that if there was an image on the English Wikipedia, then it was free to be used on other Wikipedias.

To summarise therefore, tact and diplomacy are very useful traits in life. By developing them, you may find that people respond to you in a more positive manner. Pwyll 11:37, 24 Medi 2010 (UTC)